“This post contains affiliate links, and I will be compensated if you make a purchase after clicking on my links.”
The Canadian province of Quebec has taken important steps in protecting the safety and welfare of pets by establishing their “MAPAQ Guide d’application du règlement sur la sécurité et le bien-être des chats et des chiens,” or Guide to Implementing Rules on the Safety and Well-Being of Dogs and Cats.
The guide, which outlines regulations regarding pet ownership in Quebec including standards of care, licensing, housing and shelter requirements, was met with both praise and backlash when the latest version, released in November of 2013, included a province-wide ban on the use of shock and/or prong collars.
Specifically, the law states that the collar “must not interfere with breathing or cause him pain or injury.” In addition to an absolute ban on shock and prong type collars, the Guide further clarifies that choke-chain type collars should only be used as a temporary measure of restraint, such as during walks, and should never be left on a dog that is unattended.
Dog owners in Quebec caught using shock or prong collars will initially be given a warning, and subsequently issued heavy fines, no less than about $600 per incident.
These types of collars are already banned in several countries and provinces around the world including New Zealand, Wales, Switzerland, parts of Australia, and are currently being considered for a ban in Germany.
This ban on shock (also called electronic collars, e-collars, zap collars) and prong (sometimes called pinch collars) collars is a victory for both the dogs of Quebec that will no longer be subjected to pain and suffering through such aversion training techniques, but also for proponents of scientifically proven Positive Training techniques.
Trainer Kevin Duggan, CPDT-KA of All Dogs Go To Kevin, LLC, explained, “This is a huge step in the right direction. These “tools” cause dogs to do things because they want to avoid the pain or stimuli associated with them. Science has shown us that there are better ways to teach dogs and also modify their behavior. Yes, even severe cases can be fixed without these. We refer to dogs as “man’s best friend” so lets treat them like they deserve to be treated.”
In other words, when properly trained using Positive training methods, your dog can reliably do what you ask of him because he wants to do it, not because he is afraid not to.
Still, those who oppose the ban believe this in an infringement on their right to train their dogs as they see fit, or in a method that they have found to work for them. Rather than viewing it as an opportunity to learn longer lasting, proven, reward-based training methods, these pet owners are angered by their government’s position, seeking to overturn the rule.
Do you agree or disagree with Quebec’s ban on shock and prong collars? Would you celebrate a similar ban in your own country or state?
Jennifer Fisk
Aug 25, 2015 at 7:14 pm
This is crazy. I have used a prong collar on my GSDs for years. For the most part, they rarely get a correction but wearing the collar reminds them of how to behave. What are they going to do about visitors to Quebec who use a prong?
Me
Aug 6, 2014 at 9:35 pm
No one mentioned that the table is within a chapter called “contention”, which means immobilization.
So basically it says that those collars (e-collar or prong) should not be left on the animal when immobilizing him.
This is very different to say that those collars are banned, as “contention” doesn’t include walking/training.
white leather dog collar
Jul 16, 2014 at 7:22 am
Yes, I send my dogs to doggie daycare. I used to not tell this
to people unless I had consumed a few beers first.
Even then, I would attempt justify it—by others how much
I worked, how I didn’t have enough to home to let my dogs in order to potty, how I felt guilty that my
dogs were alone so when it comes to. But now I’m unapologetic.
I send my dogs to daycare and I don’t care
who knows it!
Some people think physical exercise dangerous, but this could be
the 21st one! There are products out there like the “Walkiedog” and the “Springer” that allow you to keep
both of his hands firmly upon the handlebars without disabling you from controlling your dogs leash length and allow.
Here’s what happened; the American dream picked up it’s own baggage within the way, which has now become so cumbersome as to be archaic.
Is not doesn’t work anymore.
Muffin is my fourth Maltese. They’ve all been faithful, loving, brave, very smart, and wonderful
soulmates. Dolly, Coleman’s Maltese in Restrike, is really a composite
belonging to the four dog s I’ve owned, but I confess she’s better behaved
than each of mine. She never barks, except the emergency.
My dogs possess the applicable been very yappy. Need be Coleman-a loner-to have a pet, so i didn’t think she was a cat client.
Giving her a Maltese was fantastic. Dolly is a tiny dog, so Coleman consider her nearly everywhere.
Work with York women do this guidance. I know one who
takes her dog for the museum where she gets results.
Especially shaggy breeds are usually most grateful on long bicycle rides
if they’ve got a supply water. Especially during those long summer time if you’re late
on that grooming appointment.
Agatha Christie, Josephine Tey, Dorothy N. Sayers, Margaret Maron, Elizabeth George and Thomas Perry (the Jane
Whitefield novels), to list a few. Early readers have compared Restrike
to activity of a variety of those experts. I am honored to be thought of in a league technology greats.
Now is the time to take stock and when possible, revert to doing things manually rather than always plugging in a piece of equipment
to do simple duties. You may find that kneading bread is therapeutic or
how the coffee by way of manual brewer really to get.
Karla
Jul 10, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I am an owner of 2 Rottweilers. I have an invisible fence around my large backyard. My dogs NEVER leave the backyard and I have watched them chase a rabbit right up to the fence and stop, as it crosses over to the neighbour’s yard. I have felt the low intensity ‘shock’ on my hand and it was more of a vibration/tickle than a shock. It’s more of a distraction than a delivery of pain. I do not leave the property with the dogs outside.
My neighbour, on the other hand, has two large German Shepherds confined to a very small fenced pen. They are NEVER walked. They bark incessantly out of frustration and boredom. In my view, my invisible fence allows for a far better lifestyle and more mentally healthy dogs than my physically fenced neighbour’s dogs.
James
Jul 6, 2014 at 1:22 pm
Have you ever seen or heard a Labrador being fried in the water….I have.
This was done by a ‘pro-trainer’ who has been training for over 40 years!!!?
There are very few good pro-trainers in Ontario.
Yes, the e-collar does need to be banned all across Canada. Trying putting an e-collar around your ankle and burn yourself…..I doubt you will.
Ted
Jun 11, 2014 at 4:30 pm
First off, I am a professional dog trainer in the US, training therapy and medical alert dogs with a mixture of methodologies including e-collars. This type of knee jerk reaction and the support in this article is pure foolishness. The trainer interviewed quotes “science as proving” yet has no substantive references to any actual science. Notice, no professional e-collar trainers were interviewed. It is the utter anthropomorphizing of dogs (treating them like humans) which is denying what is their true nature as dogs. It is a relatively modern (as one of my clients aptly put it) pop psychology toward dog training. None of our dogs work for us out of fear and it is evident in the dogs response to commands and e-collar use. A dog properly trained with an e-collar as an operant conditioning device responds to it like a dog would to his leash before going on a walk, with excitement and enthusiasm. This is the kind of ridiculous group think that drives me mad… more based on emotional response and ideology than logic, fact and behavioral analysis.
What is dog socialization other than operant conditioning through a series of behavioral responses including both positive, neutral and negative. This is how dogs communicate and trying to impose human psychology on dogs is arrogant and a fools errand.
I hope Quebec ups their budget for animal control in preparation for an increase in dog and human attacks while also upping the budget for shelters as more people will be dumping dogs they cannot control or help leading to more being put down.
I can’t tell you how many people come to us after spending loads of money on supposed “positive” methodologies that don’t or didn’t work. And how many supposed “positive” dog trainers tell the owner that their dog is un-trainable or should be put down.
Lauren
Jun 10, 2014 at 5:06 pm
I have to say I very much disagree with the ban on the e-collars only. I have a 120 lb cane corso who was a holy terror when he was younger. I hired a behaviorist to help me with him, and she insisted we use the shock collar for training. Initially I was very against the idea, but we spent three weeks working with Riley on what was expected of him, with the collar on him, but never using it (so he wouldn’t get collar smart and only listen when he was wearing the collar). When it came time to use the collar, I first had to zap myself with it before ever being allowed to turn it on and put it on my dog. The zap, at a 1 (I have a SportDog400) barely felt like a tickle (and to this day whenever someone sees the collar and is upset with me using it, I shock myself with it, and offer to let them feel. They’re very surprised by how little you feel). My behaviorist told me that he collar was to be used as a reinforcement to my voice commands and it was for recall ONLY. I was NEVER to use the collar as a punishment for Riley doing something wrong. Instead, if Riley was doing something he wasn’t supposed to be doing, I was to recall him to me, and if he didn’t listen, then use the collar, again with the recall command. That was 3 years ago, and my holy terror of a 120 lb dog is now the best partner I could have ever asked for, completely well mannered and off-leash trained. He’s a perfect angel in the house when he’s not wearing the collar, and gets excited when he sees me pull it out because he knows that means we’re going on an off-leash adventure. In fact, one day while we were out walking a trail, a man came along with his ferocious little *thing* on a retractable leash, barking and yapping and trying to attack my dog. The man was screaming at me for having my dog off leash, but Riley did as he was trained and stayed at my knee while this man couldn’t even control his dog or pull the retractable leash back to him and was getting his legs tangled in it. If these collars are used correctly, they make incredibly wonderful training tools and I don’t ever have to worry about my dog doing something he isn’t supposed to do, but I ask, what would this man do with his dog if the leash suddenly broke? I’d much prefer to have an off leash, under control dog than an on a leash, but out of control dog.
The prong/choke collar ban, however, I do disagree with. It has been proven that choke collars can crack windpipes, and my behaviorist refused to ever let me use a prong collar on Riley, explaining that the prong collar causes pain without training and actually creates dog aggression – so the dog wearing the collar sees another dog, gets excited and pulls on the leash. The dog wearing the collar feels pain. The dog wearing the collar starts to associate other dogs with pain. The dog wearing the collar becomes dog aggressive.
I say, stop banning silly things like pitbulls and helpful training tools. Instead, require owners to be trained and responsible.
Lyzard King
Nov 11, 2014 at 7:43 pm
Your behaviourist is wrong. The dog reacts to the environment with the correction of a shock collar and can associate that to nearby people or dogs. The dog associates the correction of a prong collar to the handler and reacts to them. Think about this, a zap from an unknown source…..what are you going to react to? A tug from the person physically holding the lead…what are you going to react to there? You’ve got a behaviourist who’s a shock collar trainer who knows and wants to use shock collars. Telling you nonsense about prong collars is just a way of saying “I only want/know how to use shock collars”, which is fine, but since a lot of people who don’t understand shock collars start pointing fingers and yelling “PAIN”, isn’t that exactly what your behaviourist is doing to a tool others who use them clearly state doesn’t cause pain. Also, what’s this choke/prong business? The two collars are completely different in their function and application, why do you associate them together, especially since you’re using the least favoured aversive tool out the 3……glass houses and all.
Chay
Jun 4, 2014 at 8:12 pm
This ban is dumb. This is exactly the same as banning pitbulls. It’s the owner that uses the trainingdevise wrong and causes abuse. Not the training tool itself. This is like blaming the dog when the owner is to blame for a dogs behaviour. Take away these training tools and u will have many dogs that ppl cannot control.
HERTA LAPORTE
May 30, 2014 at 11:16 am
I HAVE A4YEAR OLD ROTTI,A DARLING DOG ,BUT WHEN HE SEES AN OTHER DOG HE WANTS TO GET HIM TO PLAY.HE IS 120 LBS,I AM115 LBS,WHEN HE GOES HE TAKES ME WITH HIM. THE E-COLLAR CHANGED HIM ,NO PULL, NO CHARGE,I AM NOT EVEN USE THE COLLAR,JUST SHOWING IT TO HIM DOES THE TRICK.I HAVE NEVER HURT MY DOG,HE WAS TRAINED LIKE THAT,AND WAITS TO HAVE THE COLLAR ON.
Charlene
May 17, 2014 at 1:43 pm
Please, Please, Please Make This BAN Happen In The United States,…
We Must Remove These Torture Devices From The Market,…
Positive, Loving, Reinforcement Is The True Art Of Training…
Those Who Are Abusing Our Animals In The Name Of “Training” Should Be Fined, Jailed and Have Any “Humane” License Removed.
First Of All, Please Garner ALL Support For Banning Torture Devices For Our Precious Animals…
Thank You…
Garena Shells Generator
Apr 25, 2014 at 4:00 pm
There were also Battlefield 3 and Assassin’s Creed
3 running in the back for passerby’s. One of the most interesting facets of the Law of
attraction is found in it’s teachings. It is being said that to be born a poor is not your choice,
but to die a poor is a sin, because there are ways to combat poverty.
Michelle
Apr 9, 2014 at 9:44 am
I have a 110 pound Lab that is just over two years. The only way I could take her for a walk is with the use of a pinch collar. She is fine UNTIL we meet another person and then all of that puppy enthusiasm takes over and she will jump on them. She gets excited (happy enthusiasm) when she sees that collar because she knows she’s going for a walk. We have electric shock collars for our underground fence. Likewise, it keeps the neighbors safe from her playful enthusiasm and she knows her boundaries. Without the use of that collar, she would not be able to go outside and run / play. The shock collar is not her torture, but her freedom. We do leave the shock collar on her, and like any dog, she’s attached to her collar. It bothers her if we take it off. It’s never irritated her skin, but I can see how it would if too tight.
Angie
Apr 23, 2014 at 8:13 pm
Hello,
If you would like, I could meet with you and give you some tips about your 110lb lab. My name is Angie and I have 2 dogs. I am an ESL teacher, however dogs are my passion and I board/walk and do basic training the rest of the time. I can assist you if you like with your dog so that you would no longer need the pinch nor shock collars.
Call me anytime
Angie
514.892.8003
Mary Lynn
May 18, 2014 at 10:18 pm
Angie I have two Labs and I don’t use a Ecollar or shock collar as you folks refer to these collars. Unfortunately these collar and the prong collar have been given a bad rap by some who have misused them. When Ifirst started to train I treated all these items collars etc as tools. These tools simply helped my dogs get to their goal. The one dog never needed to be burned as they call it but mostly I used the pager for long distance retriever training. The other dog was a confirmed barker if I left his side he would start up. Thank goodness for the collar. Now I just show him the transmitter and he does not bark. Without that tool I doubt very much I would be very far with training or having pleasant dogs. Now like I say neither one of them have an E collar on.
It is too bad Quebec banned these tools. Used properly they can work very well. I would have to say you now have limited tools to train with. Positive training only goes so far with a food mongering Lab. And how would I train these guys on the long distance blinds etc. I am interested in what you would suggest to me instead of an aversive?
rich
Jun 7, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Hi Mary Lynn! Here are a couple of positive gun dog resources to help you get started, if you are interested:
positivegundogtraining.com
positivegundogassociation.com
facebook.com/PositiveGunDogAssociation
Best of luck!
steph
Mar 17, 2014 at 11:22 am
i do not want to start a debate on whether or not to use these collars, i am just gonna give you some info, the information is wrong! the law article 26 states “the collar must not interfere with breathing or cause him pain or injury.” they did not ban the use of these collars, they banned the misuse of them… i have contacted MAPAQ and even a lawyer to get to the bottom of this. when i spoke to MAPAQ they said they would only step in in extreme cases, for example if someone chains there dog outside and the dog has a prong and is lunging all day than they would step in, but if someone is using it to walk their dog on a walk then that is fine, as it is its intended use. Also the picture in the article is taken from the “Guide d’application du règlement sur la sécurité et le bien-être des chats et des chiens” which is NOT LAW it is just recommendations.
Christine
Mar 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm
These are tools which can be used responsibly or not. An Ecollar used and trained correctly is just like a parent touching a child’s shoulder to get their attention when they are focused on the TV. The collars can be set at many levels. I could not even feel the first 2 levels on the one I tried.
A prong collar is often used on a walk with a high drive dog. The dog will self correct with the collar if it forgets its training in a high drive situation. (Think squirrel and busy road). A well fitted prong can only tighten to a set degree; it will not actually choke the dog, unlike a “pretty little” choke collar that can actually tighten enough to cut off the air supply. So why are the choke collars legal, if they are truly watching out for the welfare of the dog? Could it be that the CKC use choke collars habitually to control their show dogs and have more power than working and hunt dog trainers?
Jaque
Mar 1, 2014 at 12:05 pm
If an experienced trainer has to use a prong or electronic collar
to train…..they obviously, are not knoledgeable trainers.
Using electronic collars to train competitively is only for the
sake of the owner/trainer. It’s an ego trip for a title or prize.
Dog sports are suppose to be fun for the dog. What’s so funny about a dog
getting a shock or pinch on the neck????
I can tolerate an elderly senior using a prong collar in order to
walk their dog on leash. But only if the dog wears it for that purpose.
Most sensistive dogs shut down with the use of the prong.
Those who use these forceful “tools” are actually cruel to their
so called beloved pet.
The pet stores etc., who sell these devices are the real culperts making
the money without explanations….
Jay
Mar 28, 2014 at 9:11 am
I’m curious what you would suggest when exercising my dog off leash in the bush, and he decides to go after coyotes or deer. Saying “Please come back Fido” doesn’t seem to work well, no matter how good his recall is in other situations. I’ve only trained 7 dogs in my life, albeit all to a very high level of obedience, but recall on deer and coyotes has always been extremely difficult without an e-collar.
Dave
May 18, 2014 at 8:25 pm
Ask hunters in Finland.
Their dogs are not allowed to chase deer or livestock. E-collar has been banned since the 1980s, and they have lots more hunting dogs than we do; and higher participation percentage of active hunters.
Seriously, it’s time for North Americans to smarten up and ask other cultures how they train their hunting dogs.
Mary Lynn
May 18, 2014 at 10:22 pm
You are misguided in your conception of use of these tools. Obviously you are seeing these used incorrectly. I would get some assistance to help you learn how helpful these tools are to your dog’s initial teaching!
Conrad
Feb 21, 2014 at 8:09 am
What a hypocrite, all these decision-makers will be ready to give care to others to resolve behavior problems, regardless of the tools used, provided that it is not they who do it, provided that problem is resolved.
chris
Feb 19, 2014 at 5:56 pm
What a step backward in the training of dogs. Knee jerk reaction and morons deciding what is “best” with no real science or understanding of how these devices work.
Emily
Feb 18, 2014 at 5:33 pm
These tools are not simply for those who are lazy – in fact, I spend at least two hours a day working with my trio of special needs dogs, this is on top of a two hour a day commute and a full time job. I would not be in a position to be able to have three dogs, all rescues, all cases that were deemed to aggressive or with too severe of a behavioral problem to be adopted into a normal home. There are three happy and healthy dogs in my care who were trained with the use of an e-collar. Tell me, those of you who are being so judgmental, would it be better that they were all sentenced to death?
jim
Feb 18, 2014 at 2:16 pm
this is a guide. No where does it state law or fines imposed
Kat
Feb 18, 2014 at 11:05 am
Dogs can be taught without these “tools”. And there are other safer tools that people can use to train their dogs. Some dogs are not stable enough to be trained this way and turn into ticking time home as a result. Also prong and e-collars are the lazy way out. Put the time it takes into training your dog. When you train this way you bypass the whole bonding experience.
Mary Lynn
May 18, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Your statement lacks credibility.
Lynn
Feb 18, 2014 at 10:46 am
These Collars are not necessary. Do the Work people, don’t be so lazy.
LynnKatfools
May 17, 2014 at 12:13 am
Lynn, Kat and any other person ignorant to these various training tools, you ignorant souls have no idea what you’re talking about. You obviously have never trained high prey, hunt and fight drive dogs EVER!!! Lets see you and your little clicker and tasty treats get one of these aforementioned type dogs to let go of a bite sleeve, recall the dog from a running deer/prey or walk around off leash around other dogs with pure confidence that you won’t have a dog fight on your hands. I can do all this with great ease, with all of the tools available and without “abusing/torturing” my dog.
You “no aversive” trainers are ignorant and you’re using your 35 lb golden retriever as your example of a dog that doesn’t require tools such as an e-collar or prong collar. You’re right, some don’t, but your generalization that these “tools” are not needed for EVERY dog is ignorant and shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to training protection work dogs and other type A dogs that have drives that you’ve probably never encountered in your life. Please contact me via email and I will bring you a few of my european imported bloodline Shepherds, malinois and Dutchies. I will love to video your protection/obedience training sessions. We will all get a good laugh at your ignorance and you might just learn that you can’t generalize all dogs based off your 15lb poodle that only has one pronounced drive and it’s his “sleep drive”.
These are tools and all tools can be used incorrectly. If used incorrectly, “yes”, they are bad. Just like any tool that is used incorrectly can also be bad. You don’t ban the tool, you ban the ignorance that you spew. If used correctly, through conditioning, leash pressure with non verbals, etc. these tools are just an extension of any other collar that you have on your dog. No different than your leather collar to the dog. Every animal in this world learns through classical and operant conditioning. Both of these tools are operant conditioning at it’s finest.
You two are just too lazy to research how to properly use these tools. Just because they have the potential to be misused doesn’t make them “bad”. Please take me up on my invite to come train a few malinois and dutch shepherds. I will love to show how ineffective a training system with no aversives actually is when you train a real Type A dog.
[email protected]
I can’t wait to hear from you and show the world how empty your words and knowledge really are. I am all for positive reward based training. I shape behaviors through luring with food and toys. I make sure the dogs understand the behaviors through positive, negative and stabilization markers combined with rewards. When they perform the behaviors to a degree that is acceptable, I then name these behaviors.
If you ever get the chance to train a “Real Dog” in the “Real World”, you’ll see that even socializing the dog to real world distractions slowly and consistently will not be enough to overcome their desire to confront that distraction. Without “corrections/aversives” you’ll eventually have a dog that will run all over you and the dog will never live out its entire life because your ignorance to corrections will eventually catch up to you and you will lose your dog to a car or to animal control. Your treats, high value rewards and your other puppy bribes will fail you that one time when that prey or that fight will be more enticing than all of your so called training and “LOVE”. I would love to embarass all of you single minded ignorant “all positive” trainers. So feel free to contact me so I can let you work with some of my dogs. It will be a day full of laughs and learning for you.
Have fun training dogs at PetSmart where the general public doesn’t know that your methods are destined to fail 50% + of them. I hope you feel good about yourself when one of these dogs gets hit by a car or seriously injured in a dog fight because their owners weren’t taught how to CORRECTLY USE ALL OF THE TOOLS at their disposal. They left your “ignorance is bliss bribery obedience” class not knowing that one day their dog might just test them and the lack of a correction just cemented their failure in the relationship with their dog.
Disobedience needs a correction, whether verbal or physical. It doesn’t have to be harsh but it does have to be consistent, timely and effective. I see the kids whose parents put them in time out and never physically correct their child’s disobedient behavior. Those children are consistently bad and they don’t respect their parents wishes 50% of the time. I also see the children whose parents give a verbal warning to a misbehaving child and when that isn’t obeyed, the child gets a physical correction. Those are the children that actually listen and obey their parents. You know, the well behaved children?? (Save the….”would you put a shock collar on your child”….”No, but I won’t spank my dog either”). Don’t try to compare apples and oranges.
I’ll be waiting to learn how to train my dogs from you purely positive trainers. This will be comedic, I can’t wait. Don’t let your Battleship internet training philosophy override your actual motorboat training skills. Put your training skills where your mouth/words are. You will be proven wrong and embarassed, and since you know this, I probably won’t hear from any of you self proclaimed “trainers”.
I am Michael Ellis certified in all aspects of dog training. I can put my name behind 100’s of successful protection, police, military, private contractor, etc. dogs. What can you “purely positive” trainers put your name behind other than commercial Pet stores, lies and false information to the owners of many pets? You should be ashamed of yourselves!!
Karla
Jul 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Very well said/written!
charlyne hecker
Feb 18, 2014 at 10:41 am
i need the prong collar for my bully breed! he is strong like bull! with this collar, we can enjoy our walks together! it is not that he isn’t trainable!
Lindsey
Feb 18, 2014 at 9:47 am
I agree with Kats post. Although of course people who are not educated enough on this subject and who do not learn the proper ways to use these tools, then of course they are dangerous. Its the people out there that throw a prong collar on their dog to make them look tough and have them wear it all the time and do not have it properly fitted etc, or grab one from the pet store because someone tells them it will work, same with shock collars…and chokers. I noticed that those weren’t mentioned at all and to be honest a choker can cause way more damage than the other two mentioned collars. Would it be great to not have to use these tools at all? Of course it would! But ask people who rescue dogs if they have used these before. When you take in a 100 pound dog for example, training doesn’t always come right away, so are you going to let this dog drag you down the street, scare people? I agree using these with the proper training and care and I do not even use them myself, although if I needed to I would. I am all for positive training, but sometimes these tools are needed, that’s why they are there. It is people, just like with many other things, that make these tools an issue and makes them dangerous.
Kat
Feb 18, 2014 at 7:29 am
Sketchy social and ethical model?? Do you see how dogs communicate with each other in a litter? The Mother nips the pups in the neck, with her teeth, when they misbehave. Dogs everywhere communicate with other dogs using their mouths. They play and rough house other dogs with their teeth and also bite other dogs when they are out of line. This is all natural… They are animals. This isn’t an ethical model. Please also remember that dogs bodies are built very differently than humans. A dog’s neck is similar to a humans thigh, thick, muscular and fatty. Not the most pressure sensitive part of the body. Also, a prong collar doesn’t cause pain, when used correctly. It is used to keep dogs safe (the same way a mother dog’s teeth would be) Young, large dogs don’t know not to pull and run into the street and get hit by cars, and when a person is 100 lbs walking a young dog who is 125lbs, significant safety measures need to be taken. I beg you to remember that dogs aren’t afraid to tell us when we step on their tail with a yelp or when they hurt themselves. I use both of the banned tools regularly, allowing my dog to enjoy off leash hikes, swimming and long walks safely. She always comes when I call her, usually as fast as she can and with her tail wagging. That doesn’t seem like a sketchy social or ethical model… The person who’s dog is on a flat collar or harness and is dragging them down the street scaring everyone and creating a dangerous situation for others and the dog is way more sketchy… If you ask me.
Jill Freifeld, CPDT-KA
Feb 18, 2014 at 6:27 pm
Prong collars and other training tools used to administer corrections absolutely cause discomfort and pain. Think about how and why prong collars work. If a dog pulls or does something else you don’t want them to do, they get a pinch in the neck – by definition punishment is something that diminishes a behavior by causing something the animal dislikes and does not expect. If it wasn’t uncomfortable and/or painful it wouldn’t alter the dog’s behavior. If it were simply annoying, the dog would continue the undesired behavior. For more info., see Steve White’s 8 Rules of Punishment: dogster.com/lifestyle/all-about-aversives-and-punishment.
Also, have you ever put a prong collar around your own neck (not your arm or wrist), handed the leash to ANOTHER person and had them administer the correction? I can tell you it absolutely hurts.
Plus, who are we to say what is painful or not to a dog? Different dogs have different sensitivities and pain thresholds, just at people do.
A well-known training quote applies here: Administering effective corrections requires perfect timing, perfect intensity, perfect consistency and enormous skill and if you possess all of those traits, then you don’t need to use corrections in training.
Lyzard King
Nov 11, 2014 at 7:54 pm
Did you win your CPDT-KA letters in a raffle?
A prong doesn’t “HAVE” to hurt to work, it works on the application of pressure and that doesn’t automatically equal “PAIN!”, dogs have experience of pressure their entire lives, in fact, so do you and I, is every type of pressure “PAIN!” to you? I did chuckle at “Administering effective corrections requires perfect timing, perfect int….” blah blah blah, if the collar is used as negative reinforcement it’s self correcting and the dog decides. Nope, I doubt your boilerplate Facebook forum knowledge of aversive training tools warrants a CPDT-KA qualification. I’m calling you out as a complete fraud.
Chloe
Feb 17, 2014 at 9:34 pm
Do I think dogs need to be treated with respect? Absolutely! To me this means nothing that obviously causes physical pain like the collars in question.
The big difference between these types of collars and a standard leash that your average person could misuse “like a whip” is that these are devices designed to cause pain and aversion. Sentient creatures should not be exposed to ‘tools’ that are purposefully made to induce fear. A government has to step in when people are not behaving in humane and compassionate ways. When humans come up with faster, cheaper ways of getting what they want, that usually spells disaster and the business of dog training through ‘aversion’ is not only a poor learning model, but it’s also a very sketchy social and ethical model.
Tom Labor
Feb 17, 2014 at 6:15 pm
Truly the Quebec goverment has nothing to do. These devices are tools , usually better timing tools. People control tools – a leash can be used correctly or like a whip. So can a ecollar. Educate the people, do not ban the tool. Should the goverment now ban horse bits, how nasty are they if not used correctly. Most people riding horses for the first time, create pain because they have no education. Should Quebec get rid of all the police dogs trainied with ecollars, 90% are ecollar conditioned. Positive & negative re-inforcement are part of behavior. Truly another case of un informed Quebec politicaians hurting the people of Quebec again. Education of tools and behavor is better than crazy laws.
steph
Mar 17, 2014 at 11:25 am
well said!
Dave
May 18, 2014 at 8:29 pm
U.S. military haven’t been using prong collars or e-collars for awhile now. Norwegian police and military haven’t used prong or e-collar for almost two decades.
Also, look at who have been winning the World Champions in IPO: they are being won by Nordics who are using positive-reinforcement methods.
It’s time to ask people from other countries how they train their dogs without using those methods. They speak English, yet we never solicit their advices.
Charlotte
Feb 17, 2014 at 2:01 pm
I’m curious to know if this includes e-collars for electric fencing systems? I assume it does, and if that’s the case, disagree with this move. Electric fences are keeping many dogs safe, while giving them room to move about as dogs should.